Green By Design Episode 009: The Business of Salvaged Wood

With Brady Zaitoon of Angel City Lumber

Check out my video interview with Brady, or the transcript below!

Brady Zaitoon PE, LEED AP Business Development Manager of Angel City Lumber

Re-using wood became mainstream when rustic and modern farmhouse interior design got a revival. However, Brady explains the difference between reclaimed and salvaged wood, the aesthetic applications for both. Beyond that, he educated us on the whole business of salvaging and saving urban trees from the cities' dirty little secret of sending them to the chipper and landfill.

Erica:

Welcome to green by design. I am your host, Erica Reiner from eco method interiors. And today I have with me Brady Zaitoon.

And I'm going to tell you a little bit about him, but first, thank you so much Brady for being here. It's a pleasure to have you

Brady:

Thank you for having me.

Erica:

Okay. So you guys, Brady has a very interesting background, which is why I asked him to be on the show. He is a P E and a lead AP. So he's an advocate of reducing our society's ecological footprint and be in a big picture kind of guy. He's a professional engineer and sustainability entrepreneur, specifically owning a green building consulting firm in Austin, Texas, and also as a co-owner at angel city lumber here in Los Angeles, working in commercial multi-family and residential building sectors. Brady's familiar with the multitude of sustainability rating systems, he's consultant and a commissioning agent for over 40 projects from all kinds of different types of projects and facilities still under the umbrella of sustainability. He recently shifted his focus to materials and as part owner of the company here in LA angel city lumber, which is a growing urban lumber mill in the heart of LA, what they do there is intercept fallen trees in LA County and processes them into usable lumber, especially Brady works around the design industry and community to utilize local materials and innovative projects here in around LA. And we're going to tell you where to find him and his work later on. Okay. So again, thank you for being here. We are going to basically just start off with your interest in sustainability, in the built environment. Maybe you can walk us through how you got into that and then how you transitioned from there into angel city lumber.

Brady:

Sure. So my story starts in Texas. I went to the university of Texas and graduated from the mechanical engineering school there. And like most Texans, the economy is focused on the oil and gas industry, especially mechanical engineers. So I moved to Houston and quickly found out, you know, working for an oil and gas company. Wasn't the right fit for me just due to the waste and the environmental degradation of the industry. Right? So I quickly discovered that and quit and went to work for a sustainable nonprofit on the East side of Austin. I did an internship there, shout out to CMPB S they specialize in life cycle planning, modeling of system life cycle systems, sustainability systems, and doing lead consulting. So leaving there, I had a good idea of, I wanted to work for myself, but also I knew that it was in the environmental realm.

Brady:

So I started a energy auditing company based in Austin, Texas, and they had very strict building standards. And so I was doing performance testing on buildings. I then worked into the multifamily sector and started testing out apartment complexes, but then wanting to get into the commercial side, I needed to get my professional engineering license, which allowed me to work doing building commissioning, which is a requirement within the lead and lead is, you know, the leadership in energy and environmental design. And it's a sustainability rating system. Sure. Many people are familiar with it. It's kind of the industry standard now. So that's kind of where I cut my teeth, but then moving to Los Angeles, I kind of wanted a little bit something that was more visible in the sustainable space. A lot of the commissioning HVAC systems, energy auditing that work is hidden behind ceilings and walls and chases. And it's not very visible. So working in Los Angeles, reclaiming trees that that are coming down due to natural diseases and working with local wood species that you don't see in lumber, typical lumber yards. I guess the idea of sustainability there is capturing them with a local material that is destined for the landfill. We intercept that and we mill it into usable material. And we put that inside projects, inside hotels, restaurants, and people's homes, office spaces. So it has so many applications and it's sustainable just inherently and in a local material.

Erica:

So you're saying that the County of LA would get a call like, or maybe on their own property. You can, you can clarify for that, that for us, that a tree had either fallen down or need, it was unsafe, needed to be taken down, or someone wanted it cut down and they were literally gonna haul that to a landfill.

Brady:

That's correct. So trees come down due to, you know, private residences. They have sometimes encroaches onto their home, or if it's a disease tree, they'll, they'll decide to take it down. So angel city lumber works with a network of tree service companies who received these phone calls. Sometimes they do work in conjunction with the County and we have extensive network of tree services that we work with. And so they'll receive the phone call. A lot of them are woodworkers themselves and they don't want to see these mature four foot diameter, Oak trees being shipped up and then thrown onto the side of I five. So they, they give us a call and they say, can you meet us out here? We'll we'll limb the tree. We'll take all the branches off, but leave the main trunk for you to recover. So we drive our truck and trailer out there. We use a winch system and we roll the log up onto our trailer and drive it back to our shop. And that's where we, we mill it into different dimensions, whether it's slabs or boards or benches, we have two mills. So we have a custom mill there, and then we dry the material and have it available for sale.

Erica:

So tell us how long angel city lumber has been around today.

Brady:

So angel city lumber was founded in 2015 by Jeff Perry and Charles DeRosa. They started it with a simple vision of milling local trees that temp came down and selling it to the community. And that was started in band eyes. And our shop has then moved now. So we have a 10,000 square foot warehouse in Boyle Heights. And then we use the adjacent parking lot to store all of our logs. So we have about 500 to 600 logs at any time that are waiting to be milled into

Erica:

That's exactly where I was going with that question. So in how many years is that? Five years now? You said 20, 15, 10, 20, twice. Almost five years. Okay. And you're saying like about 500 at a time. So do you know the total amount of trees or maybe as an engineer, you know, like homes or times, or however you want to answer that how much has been, I think you said the technical term in your case itself.

Brady:

That's right. Yeah. So, so we salvage about depends on the month, about 30 to 50 trees a month. Isn't it just in LA, just in Los Angeles County. And we like to keep it in Los Angeles because we want to encourage other regions that have their own urban lumber operations. So we don't want to say we're a Los Angeles centered company and then go into Ventura or go and you have to San Diego County. So

Erica:

Is that because you want to reduce your CO2 footprint in terms of moving okay,

Brady:

Exactly. The lower, the materials that just carry a lower embedded energy. We want to keep it close. And we also want to just grow the industry of urban, urban lumber. And we know that there are businesses in San Diego and there's some, you know, in the Bay area that we want to see everybody do well.

Erica:

Right. Well, maybe you could open a franchise just saying

Brady:

We're planning on that. Yes. Yeah.

Erica:

Cool. Okay. So you said like, let's say 30 a month and then there's 12. Okay. You're the engineer. So you're going to be doing the math here. Disclosure

Brady:

350 logs. Yeah. 60 logs a year that were salvaging from the waste stream. Yeah. So what is that? That's so, yeah, it's got 1600 1700 logs. Yeah.

Erica:

That is amazing. Good job. I think it's great to put, as you know, you've worked in the industry, it's always good to benchmark and like put data to numbers so you can have a place to look forward to while you're looking back. Okay. So this podcast is really for the home professionals, specifically designers. And my goal is to help other designers take a leaf out of my book and go green and do that in a multitude of ways. So I've been talking to all different kinds of people for you. I would love to know what kind of applications you use, those salvage trees for and anything that you might want designers to know when they are working on a project like with what should they call you? And then like what kind of little details do we need to know about salvage and using that in projects, residential commercial.

Brady:

That's a great question. So I think you had alluded to it earlier about the term salvage and that's what we like to use in the industry because we're taking a tree and we're turning it into lumber. So it's a first use of that raw material, and that is different than reclaiming wood that was in a warehouse or a barn, which is a very cool look. And it's something that we can kind of get to that point with, with just our process and the way that we can treat it. But aged wood in warehouses is reclaimed and what we're doing a salvage. So that's a good point just to bring up perfect. And we offer salvage wood to our community. We sell it in different products, but really it's dimensional board. So fine furniture makers can like if you have a client that wants a nice desk or table, or built-in typically the client will find a carpenter or a furniture maker and say, Hey, this is my vision.

Brady:

And I also have this requirement of using a local material that I know where it came from and that I know it's solid wood. And so it's not a composite wood. It it's something that we actually add. Angel, see, lumber have a chain of custody. So we know exactly where these trees come from. And so if you come to our shop and you look at all of the stacks of wood, we have labels from what neighborhood that the trees and the, and the wood came from. So that's cool. You can buy a piece of a slab of wood for a dining table from Beverly Hills. Our Marvis are in it as a sense of pride in that way. But yeah. So typically we work with homeowners that are, do it yourself, or does that come down to the shop now we're open Friday and Saturday to the public.

Brady:

So they come down and we typically will have like some measurements and an idea of what their project is, and then go through our inventory and see what might match. So we sell like slabs. So like if you were to look at a tree and you just cut and you mill a section section of that tree lengthwise, you know, we have live edges that are appealing because it relates the wood to the tree and it kind of makes that connection. So we sell a lot of slabs. We sell benches too. So if you have a like outdoor landscaping project or, or if you want a big, you know, side table like interior or a coffee table, we have a lot of large chunks of wood that you can also use in that application.

Erica:

Okay. I have a question about some applications. Would you be able to use any of your products for certain kinds of finishes? Like I was thinking, well, flooring's an obvious one, but then I was also thinking like even sort of butcher block style countertops, or sometimes people use in a modern way, not in a seventies, wood paneling way, but applications for the wall. Like I love being able to use either salvaged or reclaimed wood end tiles for walls, things like that. Are we in the finishes realm? Yeah.

Brady:

Yes, we are wearing flooring's one that we're, we've done solid flooring and we've done veneer flooring, or, you know, kind of the top layer, which is a little bit more stable. And so we offer those two types of flooring and with wall covering. So we have the boards that we sell have come with. Interesting saw marks on them from the mill. And so it has a really cool texture. So oftentimes we'll play that off and use, you know, use it for more of a fine finish, but oftentimes the designer likes the rough raw kind of texture. Then we'll leave those Saul marks on there. So that can be used as, you know, wall cladding for interior applications, if you want a wood wall behind your bed.

Erica:

Okay. Now I did not know that you could use salvage wood in a veneer application for flooring. So can you describe that process for us a little bit?

Brady:

Sure. So when we recover the log, we will specifically have in mind what we want to use the wood for. So right now we have blue gum eucalyptus flooring as an option. We have coastal live Oak and California's Sycamore. So we have the good stuff. Two out of the three species are, are local and native to Los Angeles. So the coastal live Oak, which is in the family of a red Oak. So it doesn't have the white, very light features of, of white Oak, but it has very interesting grain. And then blue gum eucalyptus, which at this point you can almost consider it a native species to California. It gets a bad rap.

Erica:

Let's explain that. So that is an important point when you're talking about tree, isn't it you're talking about local. So the explain for listeners, you want to typically you want to have native species growing for ecological reasons, regions in your landscaper, urban landscape, or rural, whatever things that are not native mean that they have come from a region where they have not evolved to live over the millennia. So if they are introduced by human or by accident by way of like ship or being flown, just any kinds of all crazy ways, then they might do harm to the natural environment because they might be able to be better at growing in this local environment. They might outcompete, they might steal resources. They might not have any natural predators because they didn't evolve. They're all kinds of things can happen. So when people say native, they want things that have evolved to grow there because that's like nature's finished product of what it should look like and be like.

Erica:

And so to have an invasive species that can be damaging now for what we're talking about here, you can live just as actually, if any of you are Southern California is list listening. That is not native to California, even though they're everywhere. And they're very well established. So those were introduced from elsewhere, but they typically like work well with our climate. And they're so ubiquitous Brady saying, it's like, eh, they're kind of native as of this point. And they're so well established that, I dunno, maybe we could consider that now we need an oncologist to weigh in on this. So, okay. So yeah. Okay. So continue with the blue eucalyptus.

Brady:

Yes. The blue, this, and there's a lot of species there. They're originally from Australia and they were brought over around 1850 around the time of the gold rush. They were intended to be used for railroad ties, but they found that the mud trees that we were planning here in Southern California for the purpose of harvesting, I guess I should say they were harvested before they were mature. And so the wood was not good for railroad ties. And, and so it kind of the industry bust as far as using eucalyptus as a, as a valuable lumber, but all the trees, like you mentioned are still everywhere and they grow to very large diameters. So we've made reception desks out of those just because they grow anywhere between 40 to 60 inches. Isn't 60 inches in diameter, so substantial, but we're offering it as flooring. And it's beautiful. It's a hardwood very hard way, harder than Oak. And it has interesting grain. So you lift this, this is wonderful in certain applications.

Erica:

Yeah. Great. One thing before I forget that I've been meaning to explain as well is the environmental benefits of hardwood versus engineered. What, what you mentioned. And we go over this a little bit in another episode, but depending on where you're picking up listening, it's worth just describing the difference. And so back in the day, if you walk into a pre-war house, the flooring is all made from solid wood, just like Brady's been describing, but in recent years, we've had innovations with different kinds of types of flooring as designers obviously know, but ecologically, something to consider for engineered there's kind of pros and cons to both, I would say in terms of sustainability. But one thing that is important to me would be the adhesives and the chemicals used when making engineered wood floors or composite wood floor, because they have to take like all the wood pieces and fibers and smash them all together, even if not for the top layer, some of the underlayers of the plank. And so that would be of concern to me because of what kind of adhesive or binding agents are being used and the ability for that to off gas or otherwise inhabit our breathing space. So that is something I think about, but are there any environmental, like pros that you know about in terms of engineered, what are doing like the veneer layer, as you're talking about

Brady:

The pro I guess you could say is some of the engineered substrates, the parts of the, the flooring that would be mixture of offcuts and, you know, small pieces of wood glued together that would, can be designated FSC certified. So FSC is the forestry.

Erica:

It's a mouthful. That one,

Brady:

It basically makes sure that the wood is being harvested in a sustainable way. And so you can get flooring substrate that is FFC certified with our local Los Angeles lumber on top. So that's, I guess one advantage of having this being FSC certified, but also what you're saying. So that's kind of, you know, if you're looking at the environmental aspect of the sustainability, but if you're looking at indoor air quality you're right, whenever you lay down flooring with adhesives that off gas, there's a recommended time that that needs to off gas before, you know, it's safe to inhabit in California. Title 24 does have very strict guidelines for the type of adhesives that are being used. So they are generally lower, but they do still have VOC volatile, organic compounds that you will off gas throughout the curing process of those adhesives. And when you're laying it down, so a solid wood flooring doesn't have those problems. It's wood, the inherent quality of the wood will not produce any harmful indoor contaminants, but then also the adhesive that is used once they do lay it down, that can off gas as well, but they only sell, you know, the, the lower VOC auctions of that in California. So,

Erica:

So you're saying the engineered wood,

Brady:

You have like, like macro scale, like how these products that we're using in interior design and in our buildings, how they're being manufactured, how they're being sourced affecting like the larger macro environmental aspect of sustainability, but then when you're putting the products in your space and your intimate home or workplace that has another sustainability, like angle on indoor air quality and just general health and productive in that space.

Erica:

Yeah. And that's something we talk a lot about on this show and have mentioned, it's a theme that runs throughout is toxicity, non toxicity, nontoxic chemical free versus like green or sustainability. It's not necessarily always one in the same thing. So we kind of like think of it as good, better, best. If you can get all, both of those things going like the responsible sourcing and handling and manufacturing and the toxicity, air quality levels, chemicals used, all that kind of stuff. Then that's like the best case scenario. Sometimes you only get one, but we're always looking for the best case scenario. But yeah, I like that you referred to it as macro and micro. That's actually another really good way of categorizing it. So then for finishes, do you have any ways that you're able to go a little bit greener in terms of any stains or sealants or lacquers or whatever you end up putting on everything?

Brady:

Sure. We like to use Osmo, which is a very easy to apply penetrating oil. So it's not like a polyurethane based sealant. Osmo is a German product it's been made for a long time and, you know, before high toxicity chemicals were available, so they just kept the formula the same. And I've used it to refinish floors in my house. Like I sanded my bedroom floors, which are hardwood, solid white Oak, and then applied two coats of the Osmo on there. And it's great. It's not like a Marine grade level of sealant that you would find like on a wooden bar top, but it creates a little, a thin coat of wax that, that protectant layer. And if it scrapes, then you just reapply the oil and wipe it off. And it's very easy. So Osmo is one that we use for exterior, which I don't know if a lot of your listeners would care, but sometimes, you know, people do decking projects at their house or keep things like wooden benches outside.

Brady:

We use [inaudible] oil, which is a Brazilian Rosewood oil that is low VOC. And it's great for protecting things outside Rubio. Mano coat is another interior finish that we use. And as a woodworker and someone who loves the natural character and colors of wood, we don't really die wood very much. We just use transparent. Sealers are penetrating oil. So there is a kind of trick for us to age the wood. That was the group that was alluded to that earlier with what the difference between salvaging and reclaiming. And so we can achieve an age, look by diluting steel, wool and vinegar, basically. So you put, you put a steel wall in a jar of vinegar and you let it sit for about four days. And I guess, through the decomposing and then kind of creating this Russ, when you wipe it on a fresh, clean piece of wood, it turns gray and it ages and

Erica:

Oh, you're giving away all the tricks. That's great.

Brady:

You guys exist as two ingredients, it's vinegar and steel wool. So, and then we would put a sealer on top of that like Osmo or Rubio motto coat for the final finish.

Erica:

That's amazing. Okay. Those are all really good specific tips that are important to designers to know how to specify or like working with, you know, if someone's not local working with someone else or being like, can you do this thing for me? So we covered a lot. We've covered the actual source and reclaimed versus salvaged, I think just quickly before I forget, like you were talking about the style differences of that. So it sounds like, although you have tips and tricks and methodologies of actually making it look distressed or aged or have characteristics of reclaimed, what's actually cool. Conversely, like even though that's been trending for the past, you know, like five, 10 years, whatever, there is still tons of applications and need for modern aesthetic. Right? So what's great is being able to have a source of whether it's a permanent finish, like a floor or a wall or whatever, or whether it is a piece of furniture or equipment that you can make, that there is a sort of like modern aesthetic that you could achieve while still not harming trees like Virgin trees from a rainforest, somewhere like the responsibly sourced, they were have been diverted from a landfill or from being chipped up into like landmarks, landscape mold or whatever.

Erica:

But it sounds like you could also get, look where it is brand new. Should you want it?

Brady:

Oh, definitely. The species that we see here in Los Angeles, we're really fortunate to be doing what we do here. There's over a thousand tree species in Los Angeles County, only four of which are native, but so a lot of them have been brought here and for good reasons because their resistance to drought or good shade canopy. And so we're lucky to be able to see when these trees do come down, we mill them. And the true beauty of these materials comes out. And so we have anything from eucalyptus to Sycamore. We have black California, black Walnut, which is a native species to Los Angeles. And everyone loves Walnut. We even see some cousin, so we mill them and we dry them. So these are furniture, grade pieces of wood that can be finished to make shelving. It can be tables. You can make a little nook, a wall cladding or bedside tables. I made a big, a very large bed for my close friend out of black Acacia, which was absolutely gorgeous. And then I made the base out of Ash. So we have a lot of Ash, which is people used to make hockey sticks out of it. And baseball bats. It's really hard. It's very hard, but it's ductile. So it bends in and it doesn't matter. It's not brittle. So first slats on a bed frame. It's great because you can lay down and it'll absorb your weight, but not snap.

Brady:

We see a lot of very beautiful species here in Los Angeles.

Erica:

Yeah, that's absolutely true. Okay. So we talked about the sourcing. We talked about the different applications, the finishes and, or the like finishing sealants and protectants and stuff, and basically the different kinds of applications. So for actual pieces, besides like the finishes and flooring for actual pieces, in terms of like residential and commercial, like what kind of things are you most frequently being asked for? Or maybe, maybe even you could go commercially, not most frequently, but like the funnest things out there that designers could think of that to expand their mind of. What's possible to you.

Brady:

We've been experimenting with sculptural elements. So we're lucky to have materials coming in raw form to us. So we were able to work at a scale that not many people can work at. So a large number one that we use for basically the sign of a hotel. So some of those are fun custom projects, which we like. So we kind of, we have our operations broken down into custom tray specific projects, and then also basically retail. So slabs, you know, we have, you know, off the shelf, like stools that are available, we've kind of honed this idea of what products we offer based on the demand. So when we hear a client come in and saying, I would like four of these rectangular cubed Redwood pieces, and that's happened time after time. So we're like, okay, well, let's actually offer this as a product and stock that in our inventory. So, and flowing it again at flooring is one that we've been asked. We've done three projects now that we've installed in small residences and East Austin they've come out very beautiful. We've used Ash and we'd use Sycamore. And so we've kind of taken note on that. And so we're starting going to do a large product launch on flooring as well. Okay.

Erica:

Right. So does not mean you are shipping some of your products elsewhere besides Southern California, can other people get them or just Austin

Brady:

Where we're trying to take a stand on, not shipping. And so we're like, this is something that we're moving into. We're doing project management for urban lumber mills around California. So if someone wants a specific material like, like landscaping like, like planter, bed cladding, then like in San Diego, we'll go work with the lumber mill in San Diego using local trees to that area. And mill those. So we're trying to keep true to this message and the integrity there. I think we'll, we'll go further if we honor our mission, but but it's tempting to

Erica:

Yeah. Well, good for you for staying true to the values, because I think that's really important. And I think that that applies to anyone listening, because there are also so many different kinds of things that fall under the scope of green or responsible or socially responsible. It's just a good point that you've made for other people in their companies and their design firms to think about that. And like, what are my exact values? And anytime I have to make a business decision or design decision, I can just use that as like my center reference point and like not have a hard time struggling between decisions. If I always know, like my guidance based on my values and the mission statement and the vision statement. So it's a good point to bring up because it is important to, I think people who are trying to go green and then, you know, be socially responsible. And then beyond that, like specifically, those were big umbrellas. So what specifically is important to you under those categories and stick to it? So good point.

Brady:

Yes. That's, it's something that we want conscious consumers really. And that's something that I'm trying to use urban lumber to get to that point get to, to, to people to understand the transparency of where their materials are from. I was saying transparency is the new sustainability, because I think once you give people options, then they will choose the, the more responsible option. So if we're able to show you where your wood comes from, if someone's able to know where their electricity comes from or where their food comes from, like that's, I think an obvious one is it's caught on. So, you know, so heavy in the last decade is farm to table farmer's markets. And so we like to akin what we're doing to the farm to table of lumber.

Erica:

That's perfect. That's what I referenced all the time. I always use the agriculture industry as basically like a reference point of what we need to do in the built environment and design industry specifically like beyond the envelope of the building, which you have experienced with, but really taking it inside and being like, okay, all these little things, I'm going to spend all this money on everything I need to furnish and finish your house. That's a lot of voting power with those dollars right there. So if we just like the ag industry, like, you know, now that there's a difference between conventional and organic and local and biodynamic and all the different kinds of things. And you're able to make like the choices that are appropriate to you and your budget and your family and all that kind of thing. And so that is always my reference point.

Erica:

It's just like that, like, there is a difference in the interiors industry between conventional and then responsible non-toxic and things like that. So as transparent as we can be as possible. And that's what this podcast is, is to educate people about that divide and then how to make those decisions moving forward. So that was kind of like a perfect segue into my last question for you, which is, have you seen much in terms of like trend in working with your trade or designer clientele specifically for your particular industry and the product that you're providing? Like have you seen any positive changes and maybe talking on another question, like, what would you recommend to us designers?

Brady:

So, yes, I have seen increasing trends and conscious decision-making on, on where the serials come from. We're really busy right now and we really haven't done any marketing and it's a lot of word of mouth. So, you know, working at angel city lumber with my background in green building, I understood the design process, how products get specified in projects. So I approached Jeff and Charles and said, this is the type of job that I can go to the green building community. And this message of local materials will appeal to them. And it's basically an easy sell for us. And it's taken off. It's something that once someone knows what that local lumber is available, they would much rather specify that in their then, you know, material from Southeast Asia or central America. So it's definitely something that's been trending upward. And I went to a seminar that had the city of Amsterdam who is doing this very innovative project, and they're almost, and this is something that interior designers I think would really, I guess it would be beneficial cause I, I don't know, but I'm sure there's a lot of turnover in the products that go into spaces.

Brady:

Like whenever I was working at the one hotel in West Hollywood, they're a very sustainable brand in the hotel world. But when they were doing the changeover of all of the rooms, it was, I saw all this material being like, I don't know what happened to have taken out of the rooms because they were being renovated. So I don't know where all that material went, but the city of Amsterdam is doing something really cool. And they're creating this term that can be Google. It's called a mad Destor database. That's M a D a S T E R Modesta database. And so they're almost using the interior built environment and the products that go into it as an inventory that can then, and have a value assigned to it. And that is in registered. So you can reuse these materials once, if someone says, Hey, I'm going to, I'm getting rid of my lamp or I'm getting rid of this desk, I guess, notify. I don't know how exactly it works, but the city of Amsterdam is well aware of, you know, the waste and the turnover and products that are in and out of, of interior spaces. And so it's on the radar, I guess, to answer your question, like these systems are being developed and it's, it's encouraging.

Erica:

That's great. You know, it's really funny. And someone just mentioned that to me the other day, not specifically Amsterdam in their project, but they were like, you know, you should really develop an app where interior designers can specifically, it's like a closed network for designers and builders and architects where like you can reuse the old construction finishes or products even, and basically like swap, like have a little system, or you're able to pull from it, especially like the higher quality things like coming out of a nice hotel. It might not be the new aesthetic under the new management or whatever, but it might work really well for like a second tier style hotel that another designer is doing. You never know, like it reminds me of like clothing swaps between women, which happened a lot. Like it just might not be quite right for you, but it might be a great condition.

Erica:

And, you know, someone just mentioned that to me to do an app. I was like, I don't necessarily have time to develop an app right now, but I'm going to keep that in the back of my mind. So that is really cool that you mentioned that, and that's a great resource that we're going to have to link up in the show notes. Well, thank you so much for all of your really amazing and informational conversation that you brought today. It's so appreciated. You have so much knowledge to share and so many little tips and tricks and all that. So we really appreciate that.

Brady:

Well, thanks for having me, Erica, it's really, it's wonderful to talk about it because if we can raise awareness, then we can make more conscious consumers and then everyone benefits at that level.

Erica:

Absolutely. And I think it's our job as designers or people working in built environment to guide the client in that direction, because they just might not know like what's available to your point about making the obvious decision when that option is there and transparent. I think that's our job to be able to be as informed on that and what is out there as possible. And I know that's the biggest thing that designers struggle with is finding the vendors and the responsible makers and really having that be easy to find like when we're sourcing, we just need to go and have our guy and do the thing. So as much information as we can get out there as possible is what we're doing here. So again, thank you. And let's give everyone one place where they can find you or angel city lumber, whatever you choose to either reach out or check out your work or whatever

Brady:

Angel city lumber is most active on Instagram. That's where a lot of our projects it is at angel city lumber and it's pretty straight forward. And so we try to put a lot of our work there and just general, cause we span a pretty wide breadth of our operation does from harvesting logs. Like earlier today I was at the Hillcrest country club and we were getting 18 logs, but then turning it into find lumber to be used in projects. So we basically are a processing operation and we try to capture a little bit of everything on our Instagram page.

Erica:

Great. Okay. And then if anyone wants to come visit you in the shop where that's in Boyle Heights, you said, right,

Brady:

Right. Boyle Heights. We you're open Friday and Saturday right now. We're hoping to extend that all week. But since it is our manufacturing facility and sawmill, everything is housed in one area, which makes it really cool to come see and take a tour up. But it also makes it very loud and dusty for the general public to be walking around. So Friday and Saturday, we're available at nine to four and we're just East of downtown Los Angeles and Boyle Heights.

Erica:

Perfect. Okay. Well again, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure getting to talk about this with you today and we really appreciate it. So have a great rest of your day Brayden.